what do you love about being a superyacht, captain?
Pretty much just getting the guests on board and to relax and interact with nature and just find a bit of a balance because it's a high stress world they live in and when they come on board for seven days it takes them a couple of days to just slow the throw. The rhythms and the vibrations down and then. You get a good waterfall. You get a bear side and you get a fishing experience. You get a shore trip. They just start to chill, and when they chill, you just see their body relax and that's that's what I call the $1,000 shot. If you can just get their body to unwind and then mind to smile, that's a holiday man. That's the same as everyone.
Have you seen the Super industries change over the last five years sort of post COVID bubble?
Just cost them a lot more. I think you know the willingness, you know, to go to more remote destinations and become more independent as an operation or kind of self-sufficiency is the way I put it. So they want, you know, more access to medical equipment on board and doctors. I want more access to Wellness and yoga. You know, yoga facilities on board or personal trainers on board. That was always there ish. But now it's kind of like, OK, do you have a masseuse? Do you have a spa? Do you have, you know, a medical officer on board or access to medical facilities?
So the remote destination and Wellness of the two. The big things. charter and private. So we kind of do both. So is that what management company who fields those inquiries from, from clients and stuff. just a charter agent. So we have a listing Charter agent, which is Northrop Johnson and Sean Lard's, a charter agent and then charter brokers will contact her to see if we're available for charter. What are the big challenges the superior industry will need to solve? I said , but you can do as many as you want in the next 10 years.
I think you know, crew longevity is always a tough thing and I kind of think it's the reason I say it is you kind of go from boat to boat to boat even as a captain and there's no long term industry planning for career progression. It's just become a captain. Well, become a chief stewardess. The head of the apartment and then go boat to boat to boat and then move a store or retire. Where? I think in the next 10 years we should be seeing more. Not unions. That's a tough word for people to understand the Union. But more structure in the career progression of people so they can.
Transition between boats a lot easier, either through medical insurance, you know, protection or even superannuation, for example, that doesn't exist in yachting. So I think those stresses are one of the big challenges we have and then mental health, the challenges of working in closed environments. And then shoreside support because the boats getting so big and these poor little companies ashore are not growing at the same rate and they're just getting swamped, you know.
what trends in superior design and tech have affected your day-to-day operations in recent years?
I think just with the speed of the Internet, like Starlink and all that guests are just wanting to, to, to they just want that connectivity, whether it's a game that's been playing or whether it's a, you know, downloading stuff quickly or uploading or work or zoom calls. That kind of technology, that interacts around the vessel in terms of provisioning in terms of, you know supplying the vessel and parts and AI, that's the technology I think is pretty exciting how you use parts and then need to order it and provisions. From a from a design point of view, I don't know.
I think more of the beach clubs people are looking at the beach clubs as the place to be, you know, the back of the boat where you got the pool and surrounded by chairs and the spa underneath. That's the zone out area. We're traditionally back in the day 10 years ago, that was a dining area. Where you'd sit and you'd dine and be seen in front of the South of France. You know it's turn 2 now they want out of the anchor with the Beach Club.
What are the most challenging elements of your job and has that changed recently?
I'd say it's got to be crew. You know, you can't deny it. It's it's a tough part of the business. Thing is, the management of crew and crew longevity, the guests, they're coming for a desire to have a good time. So it's our job to give them a good time and it gets harder and harder to do. Because you've got to find new ways to maintain that high level of standard and service, and it's almost unattainable. It is, but you have to just keep trying, you know, so the that's the challenge I have is getting a crew to understand the standard. We need to be at.
Without the formal training or experience, they have to be at that level. Everything since. No. years and years in Butler courses and fine dining restaurants. And here the stewardess is a lot of times I don't have that experience in fine dining restaurants or as a concierge or in a wine bar. And they're just coming as a stewardess and all of a sudden, they're expected to know all of this, you know.
more on crew then. The crew joining industry today. How are they compared in previous years in terms of like mindset, outlook, work ethic?
They don't. I mean, I don't want to be negative because there's some wonderful crew out there. I'm very blessed to have the crew that I work with and they're awesome. But I do see people, even in the interview phase, kind of lacking a long-term commitment like years ago. I've done it 25 years, so you know, let's say two decades ago people would be like, cool. Got a job on it for a year. No problem, no career progression. Move on. Whereas here they go. I'll do it for a couple of weeks or a three month probation or a one week probation. If I see any red flags, I'll leave straight away.
You know, and it's like I've had three crew join. And the reason they're leaving is because they don't. They're employed as a stewardess or whatever, and I don't want to be a stewardess. I'm like, doesn't make any sense. Why? Two weeks ago, you wanted to be a stewardess. And now you don't want to be a student, you're going to be a crew cook. I said. OK, that's that's you. But that doesn't make sense to me because it's too quick. You need to stick to what you've you know you've agreed to, which is tough. And then just their minds change often.
So you really don't know with communication with other boats and other crew and other platforms and that job access to job, you know potentials, they're very always looking for the next opportunity. It's always better somewhere else. You know, as opposed to going through that one year agreement or a six month agreement. They're kind of seeing where they are.
how do you handle the sort of pressure cooker environment guests on board, lots of crew altogether. What strategies have you got around that?
You know, it sounds probably naive or a little bit. You know, I'll be I'm always transparent, but I kind of just focus on the performance, not the politics is my attitude. You know, I focus on the results, you know, not the stories. So I really do, even if it's pressure cooker, I just go all right guys. The results, all that matters in the end of the day for these clients is the results, no matter how stressful we are. Let's just focus on the client and then that kind of tries to push away the noise. Sometimes it comes out in these difficult environments, you know, so.
More important things in life than being stressed about the stain you couldn't get off. You know, it's unfortunate you don't have the skill set and you don't know it. You don't know, so you don't know it. You know, you gotta ask.
how many crew would you have on board?
Oh. 12 to 14 depends on the Charter, the busy charter or easy charter depends on pilotage and a couple of factors. And so, obviously, crew longevity, what strategies work for you to keep to keep a good crew or if any. Oh it's not a charity here. You know, wage money's the number one driving factor, you know, so wage and conditions like a flexible time off. And, you know, do wanna do go for a holiday or you know honeymoon or you know get married or. Birthday.
Those special occasions I try and or courses I try and say just schedule it, you know, schedule it you know so you can actually go through that process and that seems to work because they respect the fact that you're not like back in the day used to be always boss first guest first. And it's like, well, now you've got things that are happening in your life that are a priority for you trying to accomplish those.
what about mentoring? Have you been part of you been mentored or seen good mentoring happening or got anyone?
You know. I mean I think everyone gets influenced by different people in their lives, you know, and I was. I was fortunate to have some pretty good experiences when I was growing up and working on smaller vessels and the vessels got bigger and bigger. But you know, I think it's it's about showing good leadership and. Being non reactive, so just kind of being proactive and not reactive but being reactive seems to be the bit where people get a bit stressed and creates environments that aren't comfortable so being proactive is the key.
just being continuing education, helping crew to find the next courses and what's the plan and when you should do. Do it and help the mother financially or time off or you know, that's probably the best approach to it, you know. You say the captain's like I'm not really mentoring anyone. I'm just helping everybody along. But you know, later on they'll be like, Liam was the best. exactly. Look, it's good when crew reach out and they're like, thanks, cap. This is what I'm well, I've got questions. This is what I'm thinking.
This is the job I'm thinking I'm like, well, you know, think about this or that and that kind of helps them, I think. But you're right. You don't see it when you're in it. But I guess, you know, it's your job to help. It's your job to help crew develop, you know, the end of the day. That helps you short term, it helps them long and they need to develop a reputation you know. We have thoughts on mental health and burnout in the industry.
Well, how do you support and yourself?
it's. I don't know. I mean, I grew up in gonna, you know, harder. You work. You're lucky you get and just bottle it up. Bottle it up and get on with it, you know. And now in the last five years, I've got kids that are going through teenage years. And I see, you know, different crew with different challenges. And I realised there's more to it than just being able to. Bottle it up and push through. There's actually different mental challenges that people have and they can't get through it, and the tools that have been given to the industry now are.
So there's a lot of tools, there's online stuff, there's phone calls, there's. You know there's heaps of tools, but as a as a captain, I just think people aren't getting those tools. They feel uncomfortable. So my role is just to try and normalise the conversation and you know, gentleman, an English gentleman actually from the company called the Gap counselling. He reached out to me, he goes gap just be vulnerable. Be vulnerable and I'm like that's tough and since then it was a bit of a challenge. Cool. we have issues. We have problems.
It's not easy in yachting and it's stressful and we get burnt out. And how do you deal with it? I deal with it by going to the Bush. By going to nature, you know by getting a day off and going for a hike. That's that's me. But other people don't have that out or you know, so it's it's about trying to get people to understand that what whatever they're out is whatever their balance is, they need to focus on that and externalise some of their concerns and thoughts. To help themselves build more better mental fitness. And that's kind of the word people are using now is develop more mental fitness.
Because we all have **** going on, you know. And it's interesting is it is, is there more **** going on or are we just more aware of the **** that's going on because all the mental health stuff, you know, education is the same. It's it's everywhere, isn't it? But you think.
Are we less mentally well than 15 years ago, or are we more mentally well than 15 years ago?
we're not going through World War One or two like. I mean, Jesus like that. That was tough. Like, imagine that, you know, Germans invading or the Japanese or like, that's mentally tough, you know. And I don't know. Like, I always say to my kids when they say something's tough, I'm like, well, at least you're not in Ukraine. OK. Like, let's just take it, take a step back. It's just you're lucky. OK. But when it comes to the industry, the burnout exists because we just push so hard to get a result. So it's a natural, it's this natural fight of trying to get perfection for a client. And then captains come in and push at a certain level, and then their management style goes down to the next level of crew and it becomes this pressure cooker, like you said, of challenges.
Examples of where you've had to say no, we can't do that. You know, is that sort of swing?
it's it's really tough because the guests want the results, you know, in the end of the day, the guests want the result and they want what they want immediately. So you know, my job's just to say you're used to getting it, you know, and I'm. I'm just like, good idea. Like, you know, we had this gentleman that wanted to go on an iceberg and drink vodka and caviar. It's like, cool. And all the crew are like, no, no way. The pilot is like, no way. I'm like, look, let's just let's evolve down this path. Let's not use the word. No. Let's use the word. These are the obstacles for us to achieve that.
And let's let's see how comfortable we all feel. And so we slowly find a path, and it's just about. The wording you use is. The key is what words do you use to help them understand that this is this is possible in your mind, but the reality it's gonna prove that it's not the best decision. You know, long term, so let's just go through some steps and if you speak to them like that you say cool, these are the steps we should be taking. If you don't want to take those steps then you're really exposing yourself to and your family to more injury.
So let's just slow it down a bit and have another look at this. And then usually I get involved and then usually a senior crew gets involved and if they want to do it like they want to drink vodka and an iceberg having caviar, you're like, how about we drink the vodka and caviar on the boat and you get on the iceberg and you get off. Let's, let's not mix them. You know what I mean? Like, let's just keep it simple, you know? So and they get there, they got on the iceberg. They had a great time and they got off, you know?
So they got their results, but just not immediately, not without some steps taken and some discussion, you know. Why don't you ask, you ask them. They're probably like Jesus. It took a long time. And sometimes I run out of the patience too. Sometimes I like, or the wind changes and it doesn't look safe anymore. And they just, like, they also forget about it and I'll move on to the next, you know. None. exactly. So look cool. The Iceberg's not good. Let's go see some whales. Oh, cool whales. Let's go. You know, forget about the iceberg.
So, are there trends and changes, you know it's in the newer generation of the ultra rich. So we have a lot coming through. the more, they're kind of the more higher pace for sure. They're not just gonna chill with their family and their friends and have a drink and unwind. They seem to want more highlights after highlights in a shorter frame. And they don't want to do the trip that their friend did. They want to do better than what their friends did, and they want to see more, see it quicker. And, you know, bang, bang. We're back.
1015 years ago, a lot of the clients were a bit more relaxed, a bit more. All right. What's the plan? Let's do some diving. Let's see how we feel. Let's have a longer lunch now. They seem to be, you know, with health and fitness, they send you more photos on. Ah, let's get some Wellness in. Let's go do a dive. Let's let's you know, do another activity. Then we'll have a light lunch, and then we'll get into something else, and then we'll something else. And. Like you know, there's something else and you're like, all right, cool. You know, it's we're ready. There's no stress.
We got this, you know.
What do you prefer in terms of an itinerary?
But to be honest with you know, Jim, it really doesn't bother me as long as they're enjoying themselves and it's they're respectful to the crew and it's safe. Like I do. Both have their challenges. Sometimes high pace is the best because it's go, go, go. And then the day wraps up like ****, that was a whirlwind and it's fun. And sometimes the slower paced ones, you know, don't seem to get the same enjoyment out of it as what I think they should be getting out of it because there's more to do. So there's no, as long as they're happy, man. Like at the end of the day, as long as they're happy and the crew are safe, that's I'm happy. I'm. I'm blessed, you know.
well onto regulations then. What are your thoughts on the on the regulatory load and and what do you do?
it's tough. I mean it's we're ISM. So we're fully compliant, which is a challenge you know amongst itself. But it's I think if you understand the system and you're educated, I mean you're done the appropriate courses, it becomes pretty streamlined. It's just you've gotta you've gotta done the courses and understand what the challenges are and then it's just weekly cheques, monthly cheques. Daily cheques? That's that's all it's like. I always say Starbucks is successful because they tick the box, but as long as we can just keep ticking the boxes, then you're fine.
It's when you start to question the boxes and why do we do this? Why do we have permits to work? Why do we have? That's when it start, crews start to lose focus. Someone just ticked the box? Like it? It doesn't matter why. This is what they want. This is the system. It's. It's designed to prevent, to increase safety, you know. Let's get it down. And what about environmental regulations? Then they're going to affect the future of yachting to. 100% it's it's very archaic what we do.
We still burn diesel, go out there and go in circles and pump out sewage everywhere we go, you know, like subject to special areas, but it's garbage is a big one. You know, for me, the silly thing is most civilised countries. We don't have or first world countries. We don't have facilities ashore to separate our garbage, whereas you go to place like Panama and Costa Rica, they separate their garbage. It's like this is wrong. This is backwards, you know, like they may still all put it in the same pile, but at least they're trying, you know. And so you're doing it on boat.
You're doing it on board, separating it all, and then you get to the land, and it's all in one. I think that's the. And they all. They all put it to one bin, garbage and cardboard. You know, if you're lucky. If not just all in one. So I think that's there's a lot to do from the environmental regulations to ensure that the regulations are in place. But the application is not real. You know, it's not the reality. Well, So then, so are the environment regulations actually protecting the environment, doing what they are supposed to be doing. Not really, because it's.
It's like every shore you go to is a different. You know, you've got the forms to fill out and different classifications and sizes of garbage. But you go to a shoreside facility and most of them don't have that access. So it's just put in a black plastic bag, take it ashore. Whereas I think if there's more onboard garbage management, like through crushes and compactors and storage areas refrigerated storage, I think we could, you know, have a whole section of the boat like we did from machinery space to treat the garbage a bit better and to really separate it into aluminium cans. And glass.
And then once a week, or once a month, we go ashore. Cool. There's the glass. There's the aluminium. There's the paper. There's the organics. That's what I'd like to see. You know, different, you know, and part of Port state control and flagstate is there. They check that you know. but none of that's is it consistent between countries and places. They're sort of the compliance on the environmental stuff. No.
I mean, we have the same regulations on board the way we manage it on board, but the problem is when you go ashore the way they manage it as it's different, it's just they don't have the same facilities and it's the crew education as well, you know. We have to take the lead. It's it's on us, you know.
you mentioned more on board tech and and facilities. Anything else you would like to see introduced to make CPO more sustainable?
I think I think power management and water management are two big things and they're kind of going hand in hand. Everyone thinks kind of power is unlimited on board and water is unlimited on board, but it still takes power to make it and it's still. Cost money to make power, so it's still that same cycle. You know. Whereas I think if we reduce our water consumption by different ways or use better products or more, you know sustainable products than the chemicals we use to treat a lot of stuff and wash down and.
But that once again, it's not a requirement internationally, comes out of who's on board and what you choose as a crew member or captain, you know? Like we use a product called Ditech which has been it's environmentally, you know, sound and it's a great product, but we're lucky we like it and we're lucky it works like it and it ticks the box. We're like perfect, we love this you know.
As a captain.
It's made it a lot easier. I mean, honestly, I don't think everyone will agree to it, but you've got more access to more information and that should be a tool you use to, you know, gather your thoughts and gather your experience and make a decision. So it's input and output. And with all this technology, it's like cool. We've got charts that are phenomenal fishing charts.
We've got currents that we know the currents, we know the temperatures, we know the environments we're going into, the weather forecasting tools, I call that the technology of the backbone of the captain, you know, and the navigational systems, the warnings, the route plans. The free departure cheques the AIS, it makes our job a lot easier because we get the better information quicker. So I think it's great. You mentioned Starlink before. In terms of the the guests as well.
What about cybersecurity? That's becoming a bigger concern for some guests. What do you do and and is there enough?
You know, I've never had a guest ask me about it. I've had owners or guest companies get involved and they screen the vessel before the guest comes on board and they kind of check the networks and they cheques a couple of things. But it really should come down to either the flag state or part of our same as our management garbage management plan, same as our power management plan. We should have a cyber security plan same as our crew, mental health and mental fitness or digital fitness there should be.
You know requirement in place to at least screen it every month or six months or do a check to make sure that you know crew don't have access to certain information. Guests don't have access to certain information you know because the smart people are pretty smart and they can figure it all out. They can get into any platform you know. It's just if it's worth it. And you do do what do you do with your career around sort of social media and stuff. You've got policy on what they can. 100%.
So it's a crew social media policy and it's like 15 pages, but it's more about training crew, what social media is like a handbook, you know, so it kind of tells them, you know, you it's your, it's your brand, it's your personal identity, you can do what you want providing that it doesn't. And affect the vessel in a negative way and the things like alcohol don't involved. Uniforms are not involved off the vessel. It's your identity. It's your story, you know? But it comes down to when you're sharing things with guests.
That's where it gets a bit tricky, you know, to make sure they keep the guest confidentiality and the locations specific. You know, very vague, not involved, you know.
do you think autonomous systems or remote monitoring is going to change captaining in the future?
I think it should, you know, to be honest with you, I think you should have it sounds captains are gonna hate this, but you should have the cameras up here. You should have automation up here. You've got the technology. I mean, you should not be afraid of the things you're making. And. And automation of passage, plannings and departure cheques and. More streamlined systems where you kind of come on the bridge, you do your handovers, you both sign it digitally. OK. Now you move on to the next step.
It's just that automation of operational aspects of a vessel are still quite independently managed on board, every boat's different. Although the management company has a requirement, every vessel's a little different, so that automation, I think it's a good thing, you know, and remote monitoring, you know, remote oversight, someone checking on the crew, someone checking on the captain, someone checking on the accounts. I think that's a good thing, you know.
then into the public perception of super yachting. What concerns, if any, do you have about misinformation online about super yachts and super yachting?
We'll consider misinformation. I mean, it's I don't really have many. I think it's it's a unique industry I think comes up below decks have given an image, but I think people see through that to the other extreme and they understand that it's a, it's a private world that the people have worked really hard. To get that space and they should enjoy it. You know, I think that's the public perception of super yacht. So the elite, it's the elite's toys like planes, you know, it's like little islands. This is what they spend their money on. You know, we all have Apple iPhones. The money all went somewhere, you know, Samsung.
it's true. And what about super up groups and forums?
We're all paying for it in the end. You know, it's got its place. I I personally find it's a bit too many. You know what I mean? Because it's it's it's still opinionated rather than data-driven, you know. And I think data-driven is always a good a good place and magazines like the Triton and companies like a crew and super odd times.
These are data-driven, you know media outlets and they have a faith, but when you start having the well I experienced this and I had this and you know that's that's that's just opinions and it's good but it's you can't really make decisions on just one opinion or one experience because there's always too. Besides that experience, so I tend to lean towards the companies like Triton and the different magazines and the industry that provide the data and what size boats are coming up, what are the crew salaries? That's what I kind of look at and the forums.
They're great because like as a captain, and honestly, I look at my what's up now and there's like 15 different groups and forums and it's just heaps, you know, it's like, wow, it's a, it's a lot. But when I need something and I ask the answer's quick. It's like, reach speak to this guy and you're like, cool. Perfect. So it's a tool, it's a tool. You just, I think people have to be careful venting on that tool because it's not like a Reddit or a there's always two sides of the story. Just let the facts come out.
You know, the facts always come out, whether it's a boat that's in or a crew situation or the facts will be the facts. You just have to be patient, you know. Look at the data you know.
you said about the public perception. Do you think you can do anything to improve should you do anything to improve the public perception of super yachting?
I think it's pretty good. You know, like I think people look at super yachts and they're pretty cool things. The people have a lot of money. I think sometimes in the islands they get a little bit worried because the impact we have on small islands, it's we take a lot of rubbish ashore. We, you know, spend a lot of money. And only certain amount of people get that money, you know? So I think it's wrong. I think dues and fees and Marina costs are expensive, but that doesn't really go to the people.
I think if there's a better system that can get more funds into the other, you don't use the tax word. To pay more into the community and yachts can do more for the community as we visit, I think that would be good and there's a lot of travel companies now that realise the value of the Community is where the value of the experience is. So they invest in the community for helping them, making roads making. Through national parks, that's where I think we can give back, you know, is by investing in the communities that we, you know we visit or we try and tell our guests are unique.
that's So you now have the magic wand. If you could do one thing to change in modern superior industry, what would it be and why?
Umm. One thing that changes super yard industry, I'd say more third party oversight from an actual like you know from a crew perspective. So people can reach the junior crew and people will reach captains and just you know it sounds wrong because it goes down the mental health path. But just check if they're OK. Everything's good on board. Have you got any questions? Because the natural environment of yachts is a difficult space and everyone can say they're OK. That doesn't mean they're actually OK, you know, so it's a stressful environment and every vessel's different.
So I think just more oversight. To the crew, the care for the crew, the long term plans for the crew, the crew development, the crew compensation and you know, progression from vessel to vessel, you know that's it'd be helping the crew in the end of the day for me if I could change one thing, it'd be somehow helping crew.
To have a 10 year plan like you could have at a university that could then go on to a job that you could progress and you could be in, you could change boats or you could do whatever you want to do, but you could still have a good career progression from a junior deck and to a captain through a. A system that's strong and eventually gets you superannuation, good health insurance and good financial security.
do you think like the organisations like the Pya are on that road or do they do any of those kind of things or what what is it, would it be to be anything like that?
I think they do, absolutely. There's two, there's there's pya. And there's one in Cayman Islands as well. APYCI think PYC. I think they're they're doing great things. But I don't think crews see the value of them yet. Because the crew is still in there, I'm indestructible. Everything's good. I'm great. I'm awesome. I'm. I'm not going to lose my job or I'm going to get the job. Whatever I want, you know, and I can change. And there's heaps of jobs. And then they go through a couple of months without a job and they take any job and then it's that cycle.
You know then on a boat that has a lot of partying and then they're in this cycle again. So it's like if it was just like companies like pya or pyc, they could just get crew kind of comfort them and say here's a here's a here's a 4-5 year plan. You're gonna end up as like a in England that have cadet ships. So. You know that type of thing? Cadet ships that more of them more of them, like 50% of the crew in the industry should be going through that plan to become a an officer or to become a chief stewardess. Or here's your cadet ship. You know the wage is the same. Nothing changes. You know?
I don't know. That's just an idea.
well, they're young as well, aren't they?
exactly time. Now he's considering joining the Canadian Navy and it's like that's a four year commitment with an 8 year, you know commitment after that's. But then at 30, he's got a career, he's got a solid foundation of a career. And I'm like. That'd be nice in yachting if you could tell someone at 18 to join yachting. And by the time you're 30, you're going to be a captain and you're going to have all the sea time you have, all the courses you're going to have, you know, a good amount of experience.
And this is a path, you know, rather than having to work on a boat, then resign to do a course to then find a new boat. That's stressful. It's fun. I've done it. I've done it my old career, but it's not very not very comforting, you know. Work, so if it helps someone you know. Jim McGrath stopped transcription